I often waver between "el gato is exaggerating everything" and "maybe el gato is right about everything." i hope he's not right but it would explain a lot.
Yea, with both el gato and Naked Emperor I was uncertain about how "cranky" they were. el gato is pretty solid I have found, both through checking his work on my own and his ability to actually question his own work and ideas. He's pretty consistently been correct, and more careful than average. I am a little worried he is always right too, but at least he is funny :)
Aug 31, 2022·edited Aug 31, 2022Liked by Doctor Hammer
I am not so sanguine about the authoritarian instincts of normal voters, but with a caveat that many seem to not think through the implications of their authoritarian instincts (whereas politicians perhaps do, or I hope they do).
Very many people seem to be pretty casually in favour of lockdowns, mask mandates and vaccine mandates but I suspect this is because for most they would be doing those things anyway. They therefore do not have to grapple with the compulsion and force they are advocating the state use on their behalf.
OK you are in favour of people wearing masks, then you are in favour of mask mandates, but are you really in favour of enforcing those mandates, of banning people from places, fining them, imprisoning them? I suspect when confronted with the reality of the authoritarianism they support most people will shy-away, but to what degree are they ever confronted with this?
The pandemic business is almost a special case, as people lost their minds about a tiny bit of existential risk to themselves. That really is worrisome, especially as a lot of people who should really know better lost it.
I think people are also generally in favor of forcing people to make the same decisions they make or made, as a default. My theory there is that people want to conform as part of their utility function (for lack of a better term right now) and if the decision they want to make is going to make them not conform with some of the group, they want the group to make those people conform to their decision. In other words, if one of your goals is conformity, you can either do what the group does, or make the group do what you want to do. Or both.
That said, people self select into groups, so if the group is normed towards "Do what you want but don't tell me what to do" then the authoritarian streak is muted. When members of different groups interact, sometimes it goes one way or the other.
I will note that while cities were crazy about COVID stuff, rural areas tended not to be, in my experience. I will also note that COVID crazy didn't seem to apply to cities while they were busy setting things on fire. That suggests to me that the individuals were a lot less worried about COVID, and forcing people to conform to their decisions about it, than they were interested in enforcing their TEAM'S power over the other team.
Your last point highlights that nicely, I think. Individual authoritarianism is higher cost to the individual than group authoritarianism. If I have to personally e.g. tell someone to leave my store because they are not masked the cost registers more than if the local rule is no one can go into stores without masks and I don't have to say anything. Likewise, if one had to personally execute someone who refused to get a vaccine, very few people would be willing to punish those without vaccines. If they can just say "Sorry, can't hire you, or sell to you, or really allow you to live here. My hands are tied!" it is very low cost to indulge in their preference.
There's a lot to be said for the idea that we would have a lot fewer bad laws if they were actually enforced 100%. Not just because lots of people would be punished, but because people would see the punishments more and ask "Do I really want to kill someone over this?"
Agree with all of this, and saw it in-person when not masked as I ought to be, almost no-one is willing to actually confront you in-person about the transgression (though there could be cultural factors involve, I am in the UK and understand it may be different elsewhere).
I often waver between "el gato is exaggerating everything" and "maybe el gato is right about everything." i hope he's not right but it would explain a lot.
Yea, with both el gato and Naked Emperor I was uncertain about how "cranky" they were. el gato is pretty solid I have found, both through checking his work on my own and his ability to actually question his own work and ideas. He's pretty consistently been correct, and more careful than average. I am a little worried he is always right too, but at least he is funny :)
The Varma essay was on point. She's one to watch.
I am not so sanguine about the authoritarian instincts of normal voters, but with a caveat that many seem to not think through the implications of their authoritarian instincts (whereas politicians perhaps do, or I hope they do).
Very many people seem to be pretty casually in favour of lockdowns, mask mandates and vaccine mandates but I suspect this is because for most they would be doing those things anyway. They therefore do not have to grapple with the compulsion and force they are advocating the state use on their behalf.
OK you are in favour of people wearing masks, then you are in favour of mask mandates, but are you really in favour of enforcing those mandates, of banning people from places, fining them, imprisoning them? I suspect when confronted with the reality of the authoritarianism they support most people will shy-away, but to what degree are they ever confronted with this?
Lots of good points there.
The pandemic business is almost a special case, as people lost their minds about a tiny bit of existential risk to themselves. That really is worrisome, especially as a lot of people who should really know better lost it.
I think people are also generally in favor of forcing people to make the same decisions they make or made, as a default. My theory there is that people want to conform as part of their utility function (for lack of a better term right now) and if the decision they want to make is going to make them not conform with some of the group, they want the group to make those people conform to their decision. In other words, if one of your goals is conformity, you can either do what the group does, or make the group do what you want to do. Or both.
That said, people self select into groups, so if the group is normed towards "Do what you want but don't tell me what to do" then the authoritarian streak is muted. When members of different groups interact, sometimes it goes one way or the other.
I will note that while cities were crazy about COVID stuff, rural areas tended not to be, in my experience. I will also note that COVID crazy didn't seem to apply to cities while they were busy setting things on fire. That suggests to me that the individuals were a lot less worried about COVID, and forcing people to conform to their decisions about it, than they were interested in enforcing their TEAM'S power over the other team.
Your last point highlights that nicely, I think. Individual authoritarianism is higher cost to the individual than group authoritarianism. If I have to personally e.g. tell someone to leave my store because they are not masked the cost registers more than if the local rule is no one can go into stores without masks and I don't have to say anything. Likewise, if one had to personally execute someone who refused to get a vaccine, very few people would be willing to punish those without vaccines. If they can just say "Sorry, can't hire you, or sell to you, or really allow you to live here. My hands are tied!" it is very low cost to indulge in their preference.
There's a lot to be said for the idea that we would have a lot fewer bad laws if they were actually enforced 100%. Not just because lots of people would be punished, but because people would see the punishments more and ask "Do I really want to kill someone over this?"
Agree with all of this, and saw it in-person when not masked as I ought to be, almost no-one is willing to actually confront you in-person about the transgression (though there could be cultural factors involve, I am in the UK and understand it may be different elsewhere).
In Caplan’s piece “when the truth sounds bad, people lie”. That’s a keeper.
Caplan really has knack for those "It is obvious now that you say it, but I never could have articulated it" sort of phrases. :)
Also, don’t post links I know will be worth my time (because they’re mediated by you) WHEN I ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH TO READ IN MY FEED.
Also, thanks for the good links.
🤷♂️
Glad to help, or at least hurt in a pleasant manner :D